Cycling in Sydney Australia
Baby, where did the love go? Etiquitte...
Valentines Day, the day of love yesterday got me thinking. Along with my recent commuting experience.
Baby, where did our love go?
Any chance we can bring back some etiquitte between us riders?
Last year we seemed to be all very civil to each other. This year is nothing of the sort.
One big one I have noticed is that there will be a queue of riders at a cycleway light (awesome scenario), yet increasingly one or two will push their way in front, and usually ride off pretty slow.
Over the last 12 months it was this unwritten rule (etiquette) that you took your place. Once the light was green and nothing oncomming it was all systems go though.
Its even starting to create some very near misses.
And if people are running reds, can they at least give way to those who have the green?
Burning people who you are likely to ride with everyday isn't really that smart, especially when one day they are likely to have a pump or tool when you need it.
Can we just get back to treating each other with courtesy and respect and having chats at red lights?
While its great that the agression from cars overall (in my experience) has dropped markedly, does it really ahve to be replaced from sources closer to my handlebars?
Too idealistic?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by PeterT on -
To answer your post Andrew K, yes, I think it's a little idealistic.
While not being in a steel bubble means there is more opportunity to engage with the person next to you, but likewise, as a pedestrian there is limited engagement anyway.
People who cycle are no different in behavioural makeup to people who walk, take PT and/or drive a car.
More people who find out that cycling makes sense, means more people who used to PT, drive will now be on a bike. - which is a good thing because when they next get behind the wheel of a car they have a potential affinity and can emphatise with a person on a bike.
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Having said that, being idealistic is always good, and it channels good karma and cosmic forces.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew K on -
It just seems a completely different vibe to last year. Far more aggressive. I was only away for 4 weeks, surely not that much has changed? I mean we didn't all stand around being best friends forever last year, nor did everyone stop and chat, rather everyone just seemed to act pretty decently to each other. But now just seems a lot more aggressive, or at least impassive toward others now. A bit couldn’t care less. It seems I might be fairly alone in my view though, hence why I thought to ask.
Maybe it was better to have loved and lost (the positive and courteous vibe) than to have never have loved (it) at all… There are noticibly more cyclists on the road, so I agree Peter, maybe as it becomes more mainstream the less alternative vibe associated with cycle commuting and associated camaraderie will be lost. Maybe I am just having an extended bad run. Will try and alter my travel times to see if that helps.
Can't speak for other areas, but being blessed with some of Sydney's best cycling infrastructure I can't see congestion being the issue in my case (yet anyway), even with the increasing cycle traffic loads. You very, very rarely need to wait more than 10 seconds to pass someone safely and with courtesy on the move. The need to push to the front of small stopped queues, running reds without giving way to those on the green, overtaking into head on traffic and just jumping onto a cycleway right in front of someone is likely more symptomatic of other, potentially more personalised issues in my view.
I generally travel faster than 80% of my southern comrades, yet have never been held up by any quantifiable measure just going with the flow and respecting others. Same in the car, I can pass the myriad cyclists safely in our area without any drama at all. I will always practice road karma, same as in the car.
I don't think there is or should be some unspoken heirarchy of cyclists with precedence over others. I don't expect others to get out of my way or wait, slow till I pass or take any other evasive action, I just pass them when I can, usually very quickly. The aggression of the roads is actually why quite a few of my mates have given up driving. I wouldn't want to see it largely take over the cycleways too. But hey, this is Sydney after all and if commuter cycling was somehow a surviving last bastion of respectfulness then I guess it is more inevitable than not that it wouldn't last forever.
There may well be some dog eat dog styles required for other routes, I don't know, but I couldn't condone it in any event.
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Permalink Reply by Martin Geliot on -
why not keep riding usual times, using the road if cycleway congestion is a problem ?
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Permalink Reply by Andrew K on
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Very true, but my view is there is no problem with congestion, not one that I have a problem with anyway and certainly not one that I think would necessitate or even explain aggressive behaviour.
I would return to the road however if it became the case that it offered a less aggressive environment than the cycleway. While I ride 'with purpose', I am not in a race nor need to beat other people just for the sake of it. Happy to just go with the flow and enjoy the ride, overtaking on the move where there are plenty of places to do so.
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Permalink Reply by Da Munch on
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I only ride a busy cyclists route to work twice a week east along Pymont Bridge rd and this week I've seen most of your concerns above. My peeves are pretty much the same, examples include;
- heading east along PBR two cyclists go through a red in front of the fish markets, which pisses all the traffic around me and then they ride a at snail pace and cut to the front of the lights after I've overtaken them, then they hold the traffic (me included) up again
- the other day waiting at PBH lights (and I wait in the middle) and three roadies (who I'm starting to think are the 4wd's of the cycling world) jump to the front where there isn't any space which makes going through the lights with peds walking everywhere really bloody hard and dangerous as there's now 3 across plus a cyclist coming from the other direction and about 5 peds on the crossing
- riding on the cycling path at about 20km/h heading west outside PBH banked up behind a few and a roadie flies past, overtaking across the ped crossing which he would of been completely blind to and any others coming the other direction
Anyway it's not as bad as the roads in general but it is getting worse.
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Permalink Reply by biker1 on -
it's funny, i wave faster looking people ahead of me but no one likes someone who jumps to the front of the queue.
I picked up a 2nd hand bike from down in sutherland and the guy who sold me the bike said the cyclists were "militant" around there, compared to elsewhere he rode....funny comment.
I've seen a few push in and run reds...it's their journey not mine.....but i had a fantastic chat to a guy on the kent street bike lane yesterday...you get all sorts, good and bad!
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Permalink Reply by Poolio Thevwganster on -
Lots of love in the south west most people nod say good morning, good a , occasionally the smile or bell ring happens. I only see about 8 people a day on my commute riding and about 20 walking most are happy.
The odd wako,grumpy old man or women pops up I still smile and say hello , hoping they feel a bit happier life's to short to be a
unhappy
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Permalink Reply by Brian Trench on
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The question is: are 5% of people nasty or are most of us nasty 5% of the time?
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Permalink Reply by Martin Geliot on
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hmm although the percentage is a bit low - hey 5% in jail is usual, I'll say nice people are consistently nice.
Exceptions of course.
I love the way psychology is relevant to cycling
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Permalink Reply by yogi on -
If you are shy, there is no hope ., Say something, be polite and just get on with it.
Just cause they ride bikes does not make them saints.
Also many new riders just have no idea how to ride as a group as they are normal in defensive mode as car drivers seem to want to 'hood ornament' all bike riders.
This is Sydney, if you want " Etiquette " , lead by example..
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