Experience has shown that the only way to influence projects is to get in at the project design stage rather than wait for the "community consultation" roadshow.  So, we did.

BIKESydney, BIKEast and BicycleNSW this week scored the coup of meeting with Transport for NSW in a meeting devoted to discussion of cycling's integration with the CBD and South East Light Rail (CSELR) Project

Check out all the updates on the BIKESydney website

Please DO contribute ideas (in this thread, on our website, or via facebook). Like the current Sydney Airport consultation, there's a real chance to influence outcomes here.  Winning those outcomes will certainly depend on the community making a noise. 

  

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  I have been cycling for over 40 years and cycle up to 12,000km a year.  I've cycled to work for years from Kingsford and Randwick through to north Sydney and elsewhere.

   This thread is about cyclists trying to get a public transport system that works for all, can expand in the future and improves the current public transport system.

    The CSELR fails on all counts.

   

The main concern I have for the CSELR is the removal of trees at the expense of just using the road. All the way along - Devonshire St - Anzac Pde - Alison Rd - Wansey Rd - High St. It was my thinking that people were all for the light-rail because it would get rid of cars and buses off all these roads. Instead it looks like they will remove the trees along all these roads and widen the road. As Colin says - now that I think of it - it was never going to be about removing cars lanes - it was always going to be about removing trees and widening the road. Voters wouldn't like it if car lanes were removed.

So what is your solution PUSH - heavy rail underground?  Feel it might be best to look at a metro option - seem to be the in-thing these days. Might be too late though. Your other option running from Museum Station - down Oxford St - Flinders St would have been my option - BUT as I say - I want it to be taking traffic lanes - just hate the idea they are widening all the roads and removing masses of trees. So stupid.

It is not our role to provide the transport solutions, but happy to share our thoughts . . .

Heavy Rail for the South East, given the forecast of massive population growth would appear to us to be a future proof option. Some will argue that this is cost prohibitive . . . however consulting team led by Curtin Uni’s Peter Newman has apparently found a way to reduce significantly the stratospheric cost of new urban rail lines in Australia’s capital cities. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/07/26/is-this-too-good-...

If Light Rail, then improve the current design, making it part of an integrated light rail network, capable of extensions, and greater capacity, taking in consideration the recommendations made by Ecotransit and other industry experts. For the Surry Hills part of the route, our Engineers designed a Fouveax sub-surface option which improved delivery on the governments KPI's, and would avoid removal of (200 of 800+) trees from Central station up to Anzac Parade. Our brochure is attached (released 2013).

There are many who are interested to see the consideration of Bus Rapid Transport - eco friendly, low noise buses on a dedicated bus lane. Making improvements to existing infrastructure, vehicles and scheduling. But this does not address the governments' desire to reduce the number of buses in the CBD. We appreciate that there are many who don't like the buses on the road . . . but they are now quieter, eco friendly and provide much greater flexibility. The light rail is only a 12km track - and to our best of knowledge, not designed as an integrated network.

We continue to ask for the government to make public the detailed business case and cost benefit analysis. 

In a democratic society one expects governments and their advisers to listen to legitimate criticism and to modify their position accordingly. The best immediate solution is to establish an independent town planning authority to look at the implications of the current proposals for the benefit of New South Wales and to receive submissions from the most important stakeholders in the system, residents and consumers, who have been deliberately ignored at the initial and all subsequent stages of the planning process. A proper cost benefit analysis looking at the wider implications:  looking at the indirect costs and the direct costs and the disbenefits as well as the benefits of the system. The Departmental response to individual complaints that might be conceded is sophistry: “there will be winners and losers” but what if the losers outweigh the winners and that appears to be the present position due to the failure to undertake a proper cost benefit analysis.

Given the financial losses on the side of both government and private developers in recent infrastructure projects in Sydney and/or the bad planning involved the community has right to expect a more cautious approach than has been apparent in the current proposal. It is obvious that large infrastructure projects need to run in a different way with far more rigorous direct and indirect costings and far more rigorous specification of the expected benefits both direct and indirect. and the assumptions underlying those expectations.     

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  Well Llewster it is tails they win and heads we lose!

   Not only does the LR trains take over traffic lanes (but construction starts POST-state election - amazing that) but it takes away nearly 1,000 trees as well.  The TNSW claimed number of trees to be destroyed is just as suspect as their other numbers.

   For example take a look at the Google Earth image of High Cross Park and then compare it to the number of trees the EIS says are there - only out by 60%.

   One of the worst outcomes for cyclists is that they're going to decrease the width of the existing traffic lanes to the minimum permitted.  On Anzac Parade that will mean the loss of nearly 1m in widths between Kingsford and Kensington.

  The real kicker is that as Anzac Parade becomes a 24hr clear way (no parking) - we will be cycling next to the kerb stones and over the street drain grates.  To add insult to injury - there are going to be traffic lights at every intersection - to slow the journey even more.

  So we'll have to contend with more car doors being flung open at the traffic lights as that's the only time cars can legally let people out.  Rather than encourage more people onto bikes the CSELR is making it open season on cyclists!

24hr clear way (no parking) 

Good. Stop expecting to store your private vehicle on public land. Also, no dooring! Hooray!

we will be cycling next to the kerb stones and over the street drain grates

Learn to take the lane. It's much safer.

decrease the width of the existing traffic lanes to the minimum permitted.

Good. This will decrease the speed at which motorists travel, reducing the difference between a cyclist and a car.

So we'll have to contend with more car doors being flung open at the traffic lights as that's the only time cars can legally let people out.

I don't think that's going to happen? Seems like a bit of a long bow mate.

Good. Stop expecting to store your private vehicle on public land. Also, no dooring! Hooray!

  So you are against dropping of people with sprained ankles at medical centres? Picking up the elderly or mobility impaired outside the chemist or shops?  Do you ever chain your bike to a power pole, or some other place - obviously not as you wouldn't store it on public land!

we will be cycling next to the kerb stones and over the street drain grates

Learn to take the lane. It's much safer.

    Do you as a single cyclist take the lane on Parramatta Rd, Anzac Parade, the Pacific Highway in peak hour?  Unfortunately the traffic fatality statistics show that taking the lane on major arterial routes, even by packs, still leads to major accidents and fatalities.  Having ridden over 300,000km and being driven off the road countless times (Anzac Parade near the Golf club the worst location) - as you well know driver behaviour has only deteriorated in the last twenty years, not improved.

decrease the width of the existing traffic lanes to the minimum permitted.

Good. This will decrease the speed at which motorists travel, reducing the difference between a cyclist and a car.

  "Decrease the speed" - makes no difference as the roadworks on Anzac Parade over the last 5 decades have shown time and time again.

So we'll have to contend with more car doors being flung open at the traffic lights as that's the only time cars can legally let people out.

I don't think that's going to happen? Seems like a bit of a long bow mate.

  Well currently it happens near UNSW, Kensington shops, Souths Juniors amongst other spots in this region and that is despite a number of people illegally using bus stops to let people out.  As all the Anzac Parade bus stops are eliminated along with the parking then where else will people be able to let people out?

So you are against dropping of people with sprained ankles at medical centres? Picking up the elderly or mobility impaired outside the chemist or shops?  

This is a false equivalence. Parked cars are a major blight on our urban landscape. Only a tiny minority of people will be so disabled as to need door to door dropping off and won't be able to get dropped off around the corner and walk the rest of the way. I don't necessarily agree with a 24 hour clearway, and it looks like that plan has been scrapped anyway:

The agreement, which follows a lengthy and politically disputed period of many months, will return 100-120 parking spots on Anzac Parade during off-peak hours.

https://transportsydney.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/this-week-in-trans...

Do you ever chain your bike to a power pole, or some other place - obviously not as you wouldn't store it on public land

When I'm shopping I'll chain it to a pole near the entrance to the store. You'll find bikes are much smaller than cars and "SUVs" and I'm not leaving it there overnight or during the day, like most motorists in my area do. This is what I meant by 'storing'.

Do you as a single cyclist take the lane on Parramatta Rd, Anzac Parade, the Pacific Highway in peak hour?

Yes I do on Parramatta Rd every day for around 1km. Frankly, it's a shit road for a cyclist but it's worse to ride in the gutter and encourage people to squeeze past in the same lane.

Unfortunately the traffic fatality statistics show that taking the lane on major arterial routes, even by packs, still leads to major accidents and fatalities.

Citation please.

 as you well know driver behaviour has only deteriorated in the last twenty years, not improved.

Agreed, probably from frustration at all the congestion from everyone driving everywhere. It's not a good reason to oppose light rail which will remove people from their cars.

only 17% of patrons are expected to be from present drivers, so patronage is  mainly made up from other bus users.

http://transportsydney.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/2013-11-14-sourc...

While I'd like it to be higher, getting Australian's out of their cars usually requires a crowbar this is a great outcome.

but any freed up space by those drivers converting will be swallowed up by new drivers.

True. We should take a lane each direction for some dutch style cycleways.

  Yes they did put that figure but when asked where they got it from they did not know.  None of the Portland Oregon had a +ve change from cars (to cars in fact), and of the overseas reports the best for the last 25 years I've seen was 6%.

  So given the journey time is longer, less than half the seats per train vs bus, 5 people per sqm (vs 2 in a bus or heavy rail), fewer stops (cutting as many a 4 bus stops between LR stops once outside the CBD), and less capacity (so longer waiting to get onto one) and lower frequency (vs existing buses) - sure sounds a good reason for people to give up their cars to ride on it.

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