OK, we know some of the problem points and sections, now how do we improve PB Rd for commuter cyclists?

My starting list is something like this:

1. Lower speed limit to 50. Possibly 40 near the Fishmarket and Harris St. Already have 40 K school zone in Forest Lodge. Indicate the road is a Bike Route with appropriate signage.
2. Put in bike lanes where there is width, such as between Parramatta Rd and Booth St, and from Ross St to Taylor St, or just nearby. Also possibly between Lyons Rd and Ross St, during peak Clearway or no parking times.
3. Where bike lanes not possible, and kerb lane is narrow, indicate that bikes share with motor vehicles by use of Bicycle Logos in middle of lane, eg at Booth St and at Glebe Pt Rd.
4. Along Wentworth Park Rd, adjust kerbside lane to be 3.9 m or wider, as suggested in Austroads for safer sharing with cars. Also make the adjacent footpaths shared paths.
5. Treat corner of Wentworth Park Rd and PB Rd to address documented conflicts between westbound cyclists and motorists turning left across their path.
6. Shared footpath from Wattle St around the Fishmarket, to the pedestrian crossing on the slip road.
7. Bike lane between the through lane and left turn lane under the motorway.
8. Reduce width of kerb extensions under the motorway to allow a bike lane to continue eastbound to about Bulwara Rd.
9. Place bicycle logos in kerbside lanes of PB Rd between Bulwara Rd and Union St/Murray St eastbound, and between Murray St and Wattle St westbound.
10. Widen gap at Bulwara Rd cul de sac to allow easy access for cyclists off PB Rd, who can then use Miller St and Union St to get to Pyrmont Bridge, as an alternative to the squeeze points in the narrow eastbound lane of PB Rd near Little Mount St and Harris St.

Please feel free to add, delete or criticise..

Views: 187

Replies to This Discussion

1.  sure

2.  not for me.   I dislike disjointed treatments intensely, and IMO a safe rider should be planning an exit 50m from the end of any cycle facility, and most of those will probably be 50m long or less.  it is also unsafe to ride within 1m of the kerb in many areas of bridge rd because of the side road, parking and driveway vision issues.  Also imo for cycling overall, right turn pockets eliminate more severe accidents than cyclelanes do.  If there was to be a cyclelane, it would have to be an overall rethink of space usage so that the climb to glebe pt road can have a cyclelane.  Other than that, its not necessary.

3.  yeah sure, put them in the middle of lanes though, or at least a door width away from a parked car.

4.  it will just make for really sloppy parking.  see drummoyne.

5.  yep.

6. yes plenty of casuals that do that.

7.  I'm not a fan of onroad cyclelanes, and doubly not a fan of cyclelanes between slip and straight lanes.  The safest approach for a cyclist is to take the right hand lane if they want to go straight there.  It is usually easy to change lanes at or before the previous intersection.  I dunno what the realistic approach is to achieving that on untrained cyclists.

8.  Not for me personally.  Its a narrow lane that is easily claimed, and thus safest of all onroad treatments.  Almost all danger that arises in that area occurs due to cyclists trying to left pass stationary traffic (that then sets into motion without the cyclist having control over their lane), in too narrow a lane.

9. sure

10.  paint cycles in middle of the lanes imo.  especially alongside the refuge to convince cyclists that they don't have to pull aside there (and lose control of their lane).

Possibly a consistent treatment without bike lanes would be best. It just seems to me that bike lanes in places might give motorists a stronger message, particularly in the first wide (about 15 m) section from Ptta Rd to Booth St- sort of set the tone for the rest of PB Rd. The bike lane eastbound would have to stop well short of Booth St, as you say, so cyclists can take the lane leading into the intersection and be in a good position for the departure lane, which is quite narrow, after the wide space of the intersection itself, where most cyclist moved left instead of holding their line and then veered right into the departure lane. Marked logos might help them stay centered. A Cyclists May Use Full Lane sign would seem to be ideal for this sort of situations, so maybe we need to start lobbying for those.

The 5 m wide lane (no parking at any time) from the light rail bridge up to the start of the right turn lane at Talfourd St is too wide, motorists may form two lines or at least spread out too much, as Da Munch was saying, so a bike lane in that uphill section might help maintain orderly driving. If it stopped well before the through lane narrows (to about 3 m), but logos continued on up to Glebe Pt Rd, motorists might then be more inclined to give some quarter and not try to pass. Can't see any way of reallocating space for cyclists, short of removing the right turn lane.

Re 10, the refuge/ kerb seems to come out too far. I remember doing a submission about this when it was built. It is quite hard to maintain your line there with motorists on your tail, and it being uphill slightly, but maybe central logos all the way up from just after Wattle St would help. I tend to chicken and ride up onto the refuge and across into the sheltered are beyond, and rejoin the flow up PB Rd afterwards, when the platoon has left, or duck left on Bulwara Rd.

At least it seems there are ways to treat the road, the exact details of whether to use bike lanes or not is maybe secondary to getting RMS to agree to have a look at doing something. Not much idea where to start with that, but maybe need to find some allies at CoS first, or a sympathetic ear in RMS.

Re 5 - I would like to see some way to discourage/prohibit late right>left lane changes at WPR. How about a solid white dividing line between L& R lanes westbound in the 50 metres prior to the intersection? Preferably with a nice loud rumble strip.

I think everyone agrees on this point anyway. Not sure what the available or best treatments are in this case, which is why I left point 5 vague. The experts in RMS or CoS can decide, assuming they see there is a problem. Maybe mark the kerb lane with a combined left turn and straight arrow, and the right lane with a straight arrow, to deter extreme side swipes. But doesn't deter left hooks from within the left lane. Others have suggested a kerb rebuild to make the turn sharper. It doesn't need to be so open. Have seen motorists taking the corner quite fast, after accelerating up to it.

Stilling mulling over this, but a few thoughts. The bike lanes "should" be bike lanes, including the motor ones, they'll get more respect that way (less passenger side doorings like the guy in the vid I posted jumping out into them without looking). Since these types of lanes don't exist, I think we should suggest;

a. bus lanes even in places where buses don't go, like parramatta to booth and continue up to cross where buses do go

b. the "old school" bike lane, a solid white line with bike logos, which motor bikes will still use but they'll be more careful and less likely to use them as a speed way as they'll be having second thoughts about legality

In regards to 7. no I'd rather a bike priority box at the front of the left hand lane at the lights, it's what a lot of cyclists do anyways and what I do when cars are clogging up the roads and I won't get through the lights. The light phasing here is agreeable to this as it goes, all red - green left arrow - red left arrow - green with ped green - green left arrow - back to start so cyclist can move up to the priority box on the green arrow and not get caught out.

One thing that hasn't been brought up is heading west at peak hour, from Pyrmont Bridge to the fish markets is clogged due to people being people, right turn late for Anzac Bridge, stopping in intersections ... not sure there is any solution for this but thought I'd bring it up.

ps will get round to uploading the vid soon, the drivers have been good the last few days and have kept to the right on the uphill to glebe point rd so haven't been that normal, or maybe it's my point of view, BUT it's friday and they definitely won't disappoint today

Re 7 and the " bike priority box", do you mean cyclists would come up in the left turn lane to get into it? I think RMS requires a bike lane leading to to these, which is one reason there are so few of them. There may be space for such a lane, will have to take a closer look. My option is to have the bike lane, but to cut back a bit of the kerbing on the other side of the intersection so the bike lane can continue. I.E., get rid of the squeeze point. Once past there you have a few meters of wide road to gather your strength for the merge where the road narrows near Little Mount St, where you can pick your moment. Jason says just take the lane right from the Fishmarket, but you need a fair bit of speed and experience not to mention determination to do that, depending on the traffic too. Sometimes it would be easy. The other option is to head over to the Ped crossing and use that to progress past the squeeze point.

Re the "clogging" westbound in the afternoon, I guess cyclists can filter through, or even go via Union and Miller St and turn left at Bulwara, rejoining PB Rd with a right turn at the lights under the elevated motorway, or continue on footpath past Fishmarket and rejoin at Wattle St. Have done all those options.


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